Interview with Javier Tejada, Professor at the Universidad de Barcelona and nanoscientist

May 2006

"We need to be capable of undertaking research that generates intellectual and technological capital"

by Berta Bernarte

For the first time in the history of Mankind we can collect atoms or molecules "as if with tweezers" and relocate them to create configurations of atoms that were unthinkable before. This is how properties that are not known in Nature can appear. "The great hope of nanotechnologists is to be able to control the process of atomic positioning", says Javier Tejada, with a dreamlike gesture. "Clusters of 70 or 80 atoms with new properties on an optical or magnetic level" and the possibilities, adds the Professor of Fundamental Physics of the Universidad de Barcelona and Doctor Honoris Causa of City University of New York and Director of the "are almost infinite". The objective would be to create materials that do not exist in Nature, with totally new properties. He considers that Spain has made "great strides" in the last 30 years, because one had to "emigrate to practice science" before. This scientist from Navarre, however, believes that it is necessary to make a qualitative leap so that research projects can be "really innovative. That is the big challenge. If we copy others, it helps us to train people but not generate intellectual and technological capital".

To date a lot of work has been done in nanoscience, and in this congress we have seen many contributions, but can we really say that nanotechnology is already a reality? Are there concrete developments?

There are not many nano products in the market. Hard work is being done, however, on creating devices because nanotechnology is related to fields that are very important in the 21st century, such as robotics, telecommunications, sensors, magnetism or nanoelectronics. Indeed, there are already some devices that are marketed based on nano ideas. The most important thing is that nanoscience should be related to emerging fields of technology, so it is important to attach value to basic research.

An example...

There are transistors based on the tunnel effect that are produced by a change of direction of electrons. Work is even being done on a transistor of just one electron. Or 'squids', fine threads with insulating material on a nanometric scale that are used to measure tiny voltages and magnetic moments. It might be a bit complex, but there are also patented nanoparticles that are applied to pharmaceutical and cosmetic products. This is a field that is creating high expectations and a lot of public funds have been allocated to it.

Fine, but, what advantages does this race towards miniaturisation bring?

When you have a complex device in which many elements intervene there are more problems of wear and tear, dissipation of energy, and slowing down of the process. When things are made smaller it is easier to control them, and easier to reproduce them and make much more exact copies. In our world we are all based on similar materials such as carbon, although each person is different. In the nano world is it possible to achieve conglomerates of identical particles: authentic clones.

Operating with clones (not human, of course) offers us great precision. Can traceability and almost perfect quality be achieved in a process?

It is the same process as passing from analog to digital recording. In this case the distribution of the particles is considerable at the beginning, but when it is reduced one can digitalise the signal, which occupies much less space and is much more precise. Following this example, the idea is to take a step further and ensure that there is no distribution, just identical clones. This route, which will be long, involves continuing with miniaturisation.

There comes a time, however, when, if we reduce things too far and work with particles, the laws of Physics change completely. We then enter the quantum world and the cause-effect relationship we are accustomed to disappears. The rain no longer always falls downwards...

Perhaps the best way of understanding it considering classical computation based on the bit: where, for example, one is up and zero down. The binary system. That is how our computers work. In quantum computing there is no 'zero' or 'one' state, just the overlay of both. The two occur at the same time. We mentioned the 'squid' before; it has been shown that electric current flows towards both sides at the same time.

We are working in the realm of the paradox...

The overlay of going backwards and forwards at the same time is what constitutes a quantum state. Some researchers want to base quantum computing on squids, but work is still being done along different lines. For example, we have opted for quantum magnetism. In the business world I get the impression that although there are people who have become infected by this scientific enthusiasm, there are still doubts about which will be the best and most profitable applications.

They are trying to see where the next technological revolution is going, I imagine...

That is why companies are so attentive to the generation of patents. And, above all, who generates them. .

Any clues?

In the case of nanoelectronics there will be a great revolution, one which will require heavy investment. It will also affect the world of telecommunications and robotics, which are very sensitive to the development of new devices. In medicine, above all, in the area of nanosensors, because in other uses work needs to be done on 'biocompatibilising' developments so that they are not toxic or lead to rejection. As has happened in other fields, there will be many things that will never happen, and others that we cannot even dream of yet.

The danger is that, as in other fields, theoretical progress of great interest does not translate into products, because companies do not consider them to be profitable enough.

That is why it is important that both private and public investment should be able to understand that ambitious targets are necessary, without just focusing on the short term. The fifty great discoveries of the 20th century applied to industry are related to Man's landing on the Moon. In science you have to have an idea where you want to go, but if you don't get there you will find some incredible innovations along the way that can become successful products. Then there is the matter of energy...

Can energy be obtained from nanotechnology? There will also be processes that consume a lot.

Indeed, this dual aspect exists. We have to remember that our society is the 'child of oil' and this source of energy is running out. We also have to look for alternatives beyond nuclear energy. Renewables are already in operation, but they can be improved considerably with new devices. The energy source of the future seems to be hydrogen, and nanotechnology can provide improvements in the performance of batteries. The problem, as you have said, is that a lot of energy is needed to make nanodevices, because we currently obtain them from the separation of particles, and separating them means using energy.

It is a process that should feed off itself: obtaining new sources of energy to have the necessary capacity to create more nanodevices.

Indeed. Otherwise we will reach the limit of our capacity.

Thinking in quantum terms: If we go back to quantum mechanics, which is basically the laws that govern relationships between subatomic particles, and which involve a lot of calculations of likelihood, we are far from the universe of certainty in which we are used to operating. How can a researcher and (even more so) a manager assimilate this uncertainty?.

The strange thing is that the levels of society that have adapted to these ideas best are parascientists, paramedics and even 'witches'. They wan to to take advantage of the chaos and sell ridiculous things, such as curative fluids with quantum properties, or the coherence of thinking of Mankind, as if we were all part of the same organism. If this type of parascience is sensitive, then the world of technology is much more so, and large companies have very well-qualified people with a vision for the future.

So, we need entrepreneurs who are open to breaking down the normal ways of thinking.

Indeed, having a business encourages this type of thinking, because one has to respond constantly to a whole range of variables, some of them very contradictory. Once the conceptual difficulties are overcome, if big companies see that there is money to be made from nano, they will get moving.

A question on magnetism: How can quantum magnetism be explained without falling into the esoteric?

Imagine a compass pointing north. If the earth had no magnetic field the compass would not indicate anything. It would point in any direction, but to change that it would have to consume energy. Quantum magnetism consists of inverting the poles without using energy, because the nanocompass would be in both states at the same time. It is one thing and the opposite at the same time.

Pure philosophy. This means that is impossible to be deterministic.

It would even affect Justice, where cause and effect need to be very clear. It is even an epistemological problem. However, we should not just throw away the rules that are the basis for our day-to-day life. It is a question of making them compatible.

The storage capacity of information, reducing the size of processors, has been constant since the invention of computers. Are we heading towards the nanomagnetic computer?

If we want to reduce the size of processors the time will come when we will achieve quantum behaviours. This has been the classical limit. If we move within the field of nanomagetism, however, this limit disappears. Information would be recorded in "qbits" instead of bits. A lot of groups are working on this from the theoretical perspective, and they have come up with different solutions. In terms of development, however, in classical computing we are in 1954, the year when the first computer appeared. They have now achieved around 10 "qbits" together, which is not sufficient. The difficult thing is to find hardware that fits, there is still a lot to do.

Then there is the maintenance of temperature. So, we come back to an energy problem.

This is because very low temperatures are needed to maintain quantum coherence. Helium would have to be used for cooling instead of liquid nitrogen, but it is already being used in hospitals, in magnetic resonance. It is a question of bringing different techniques together.

Microwave laser

Nano is not only theoretical research, patents are being produced that could mean investment and jobs at a later stage. Javier Tejada's team is working on "a coherent emission of magnetic radiation", or what could be called a microwave laser. He has patented it with a Spanish company and a multinational. This discovery could be applied to communications, because it would "simplify transmission and mean lower energy losses"; it can also be applied to medicine and the characterisation of materials. "Although this will probably mean a tiny percentage in terms of its future application", he adds, because "in nanoscience a lot of things are predicted, but eventually what is created may have nothing to do with it and yet go much further beyond". The project has been partly financed by the European Union, the Spanish Government and private companies. A team that costs over one million euros is required to carry out the project.

The first textbook on nanomagnetism

Together wiih Eugene Chudnovsky, Javier Tejada has published the first textbook (in the United States) that describes the basis of quantum nanomagnetism to make it more accessible to students. "I am very pleased, because the scientific discovery we made ten years ago has made the leap from being a scientific article to being part of university study programmes". If, a few years from now, he says with a smile, about 20,000 young men and women will be studying nanomagnetism this could generate "an avalanche of new ideas". This means that the basic principles of the science can be learnt systematically together with their formulas.